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Old August 22nd, 2008   Infernorhythm is offline   #1
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Default In Defense of Superman Returns

Ok, apparently they are rebooting the Superman franchise. That really upsets me. I loved Superman Returns. I know a lot of people hated it (and have repeatidly insulted me for being a big fan of it), but I don't really see why. I've heard people say there are no redeeming qualities to it, but I don't see it that way.

Ok, yes, I admit there were flaws. Bosworth was miscast, Spacey was given too much camp to work with, and there was more Donner-homage than necessary. I get that, it did bum me out. Yet, if you actually look at the film there are some great aspects that make it a brilliant film.

It showed why Superman mattered.

First off, Superman was inspiring. Wow was he. When I saw the film I had not really read any Superman books. I was familiar with the character, I knew he was important, but I did not really get it. This showed me why Superman was important. The tagline for the first Superman film was "You'll believe a man can fly". Well, Superman Returns should have been "You'll remember why he matters." The film did such a good job at showing why Superman is a symbol of hope. The scene where he flipped through news stations and watched all the troubles in the world, realizing that he could have been there to stop them was probably the greatest scene in the film. No action, no pointless fluff, but a look into what makes the Man of Steel tick. Compassion. He cares about others. That was magnificiently brought to the big screen. And Brandon Routh was utterly brilliant as Superman/Clark Kent. Yes, I love Christopher Reeve as much as the next guy, and he did set the standard for Superman, but Routh brough such a great human aspect to him. The film was a character study of his motivations and life, and Routh nailed every scene.

I know people were upset about the kid, and claim that Superman became a creepy, bad father. They missed the entire point of the film. The whole theme of the movie was sacrifice. Superman can not have a normal life because of who he is. He is compelled to help others, and that is why he has to give up what he wants the most. He cannot have a family. He knows that as long as the world needs him he could never care for Jason or Lois. They were better off with Richard. It echoed Jor-El sacrificing himself to save Clark from Krypton's destruction. The moral of the film wasn't that Superman was a bad guy, it was that sometimes you have to give something up to save it.

Ok, I want to see the Routh/Singer Superman franchise continue. Yes, I want a more serious script and less homage, but they captured the essence of Superman. They got the character. A reboot with a different actor and director would just toss all of that character development and insight out the window. Was Superman Returns a perfect film? Definitely not. Did it show why Superman mattered and how he sacrifices to help others? Definitely.

Give the film a second try.

NO REBOOT!
Last edited by Infernorhythm; August 22nd, 2008 at 03:21 PM.
 
Superman Returns was a great film. DO NOT REBOOT!
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Old August 22nd, 2008   Not My Real Name is offline   #2
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Give the film a second try.
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Sorry, but I could barely finish it the first time, so I don't really want to watch it again.

I understand what you are saying in regards to Superman's character but, really, Superman made that sacrifice in Superman II when he gives up being Superman to be with Lois, then realizes that the world needs him too much as Superman, so he gives up Lois to be the world's caretaker again. And Superman II managed to get across the same message with a movie that contained about five times as many action sequences than Superman Returns and didn't require Supes to delve into stalker behavior.
 
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Old August 22nd, 2008   Infernorhythm is offline   #3
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He wasn't a stalker. I still don't get that argument at all.
 
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Old August 22nd, 2008   Marky is offline   #4
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He wasn't a stalker. I still don't get that argument at all.
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However you wanna term someone spying on peoples private moments (and most of us if we had the powers probably would!) I think the point remains that you can show the self sacrifice of the character without lumbering him with a child (and one concieved without Lois knowing he was Clark? Or was it from Superman II and then he amnesiac kissed her?? Whatever!).

I think a kid would have suited Lois & Clark but not a high profile return of the character to cinemas.

I really love Superman and am a big fan of the first two films, I just think that the bad, pointless and just plain silly outwieghs the good in the movie.
 
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Old August 22nd, 2008   GrendelPrime is offline   #5
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He wasn't a stalker. I still don't get that argument at all.
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Using his x-ray vision to spy into the house.
Sneaking in after dark giving speeches to the kid that could be seen to be undermining his 'legal' father.
Basically, you have Superman, who knows darn well that HE left land Lois has moved on and begun a new life with a new man,.....and he's hanging out peering into her house, trying to get time alone with her hoping to 'respark' between them, and saying that he's gonna be a father to the kid in secret.
It's all pretty creepy and pathetic. He's less Superman and more the pizza guy from 'There's Something About Mary' whining on the front lawn: "But I loooove her, man!"
 
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Old August 22nd, 2008   GrendelPrime is offline   #6
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Mind you, I reeeeally like parts of the movie, which I own.
I can't see the part with the jet plane crash enough.
The destruction going on in Metropolis (ex: the Daily Planet planet falling, etc).
And Kevin Spacey, who doesn't get enough credit for his stellar performance in that movie.

I think a Superman movie actually should be less about 'substance' and more about action.
 
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Old August 22nd, 2008   Infernorhythm is offline   #7
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Mind you, I reeeeally like parts of the movie, which I own.
I can't see the part with the jet plane crash enough.
The destruction going on in Metropolis (ex: the Daily Planet planet falling, etc).
And Kevin Spacey, who doesn't get enough credit for his stellar performance in that movie.

I think a Superman movie actually should be less about 'substance' and more about action.
ddf
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So you'd prefer mindless Michael Bay-style action to plot and character development?

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy action scenes, but Superman is not just an action driven character. He's a character driven one.

And as for the stalking, nope, still don't see it. The scene with Jason was probably one of the best scenes in the movie. I don't see anything stalker-y in that.

I really don't want a reboot. There are good writers out there, they can keep the franchise going without getting rid of what came before.
 
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Old August 22nd, 2008   darthlucifuge is offline   #8
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So you'd prefer mindless Michael Bay-style action to plot and character development?

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy action scenes, but Superman is not just an action driven character. He's a character driven one.

And as for the stalking, nope, still don't see it. The scene with Jason was probably one of the best scenes in the movie. I don't see anything stalker-y in that.

I really don't want a reboot. There are good writers out there, they can keep the franchise going without getting rid of what came before.
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Dude when you spy on someone and are constantly trying to see what they are up to, that is called stalking.
Sorry but that's what he was doing.
 
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Old August 22nd, 2008   mpjedi2 is offline   #9
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And as for the stalking, nope, still don't see it. The scene with Jason was probably one of the best scenes in the movie. I don't see anything stalker-y in that.
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The real problem in that scene comes back to the "Routh wasn't asked to play Superman, he was asked to play Chris Reeve playing Superman" problem...which I don't blame him for in the slightest.

The speech to the kid, if given by Reeve, would've been AMAZING, but Routh hasn't earned that...you can't generate that emotional connection with the audience by just putting on the suit.

That being said I like the movie a lot, and, personally, when you have a character as powerful as Superman, physical challenges and conflict become really booring really quickly,. So I don't mind if we challenge him mentally and emotionally...
 
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Old August 22nd, 2008   GrendelPrime is offline   #10
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So you'd prefer mindless Michael Bay-style action to plot and character development?
ddf
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Yes. This is Superman, not On Golden Pond.
They focused on alot of 'character development' in Ghost Rider and Batman and Robin....and look at how well those movies are liked.
This is supposed to be primarily and action movie. It's about a guy with superpowers, not a guy having relationship problems with his girl or kid.
I mostly want to see Superman doind 'super' stuff. Sure I want some character exploration and depth. But not, and this is important, at the expense of the action....as in Action Comics.


Don't get me wrong, I enjoy action scenes, but Superman is not just an action driven character. He's a character driven one.
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Then why not get rid of the powers and then have the movie series start to be about Clark and Lois, minus the supervillians and stuff?
Sorry, but the 'character' is WHAT he can do.
I loved the whole tag line for the movie with Brando saying, "They can be a great people.....they only need you to show them the way."
Not TELL them the way. Not 'develop yourself'.
SHOW them the way. BE super. DO super things. SHOW them how to care about their fellow man and how cool it is to be trying to DO things that help others, rather than prey on them or expliot them.


And as for the stalking, nope, still don't see it. The scene with Jason was probably one of the best scenes in the movie. I don't see anything stalker-y in that.
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So you would have no problem with you girlfriend or wife's ex coming around, seeing her in secret, taking her on late night 'flights'(drives) alone, looking in your windows, and contradicting your lessons to your kid in private? Is that right?
Would it bother you if you were argueing with your wife, and her ex, who's incredibly stronger than you and has weapons is hanging around outside shaking his head and could come kick the door down and take her away....and she'd like it?

I'm just sayin' that Superman and Lois came off as pretty awful self-centered people in the movie...............when Superman wasn't doing all that cool mindless Michael Bay action stuff.
 
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Old August 22nd, 2008   Eric Q is offline   #11
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He wasn't a stalker. I still don't get that argument at all.
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If I'm ever caught, I want you as my and Jake's judge. "But your honor, I was just on patrol, and this "S" doesn't for Stalker, I swear!"
 
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Old August 25th, 2008   Jeff Shabazz is offline   #12
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If I'm ever caught, I want you as my and Jake's judge. "But your honor, I was just on patrol, and this "S" doesn't for Stalker, I swear!"
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I actually guffawed (never thought i would use that word) and a little pee came out.
 
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Old August 22nd, 2008   Not My Real Name is offline   #13
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The spying on Lois at her home really rubbed me the wrong way, especially since she's married and presumably has had a son with her husband (as far as Superman knew at the time). It was not the best way to show his feelings and basically gives us a Superman who would use his powers for his own means rather than for the good of others.
 
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Old August 22nd, 2008   jafabian is offline   #14
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The spying on Lois at her home really rubbed me the wrong way, especially since she's married and presumably has had a son with her husband (as far as Superman knew at the time). It was not the best way to show his feelings and basically gives us a Superman who would use his powers for his own means rather than for the good of others.
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Lois whispered something to him in the hospital, we don't know what. For all we know it was done with her blessings. And it's his son after all.
 
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Old August 22nd, 2008   Not My Real Name is offline   #15
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The spying on Lois at her home really rubbed me the wrong way, especially since she's married and presumably has had a son with her husband (as far as Superman knew at the time). It was not the best way to show his feelings and basically gives us a Superman who would use his powers for his own means rather than for the good of others.
ddf
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Lois whispered something to him in the hospital, we don't know what. For all we know it was done with her blessings. And it's his son after all.
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Ooh, I like this even better--"Clark, I know I'm married but why don't you come by some night when my husband's not around and peek in on us?"
 
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Old August 22nd, 2008   chrisbenes is offline   #16
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Ooh, I like this even better--"Clark, I know I'm married but why don't you come by some night when my husband's not around and peek in on us?"
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who know's just how kinky Lois really is
 
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