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Old February 9th, 2010   Mackaybear is offline   #49
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Wait.. what? Most DC and Marvel comics today are created under work-for-hire arrangements. A lot of the Silver and Golden Age stuff wasn't. It's really a completely separate issue from the amount of collaboration between writers and artists. Maybe I'm missing the point of your post?
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It's almost always been work for hire...back then I'd think maybe creators did the work and were glad to get it. And never really thought much about rights.

And the DC VS Siegal and Shuster lawsuit probably disheartened a lot of creators back then....I mean the initial one back in the forties BTW
 
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Old February 9th, 2010   Scott Mateo is offline   #50
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Now I'm not advocating we lock the artists in dark and dank cells with only an overhead light to draw by and forcefeed them scripts to complete with no input of their own, but perhaps some appreciation or understanding of the characters you are drawing, in some cases, you are inheriting as an artist would only improve the artist's style and reinforce the writer's stories.
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Yeah, I mean if you're not intimately familiar with the source material, then that leaves you open to make make tiny glitches which can grow into HUGE, glaring, continuity errors later.
 
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Old February 9th, 2010   Scott Mateo is offline   #51
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You don't see Schwartz or Weisinger or Mayer or Gaines named in those lawsuits do you?
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No, in fact you see a lot of these suits pop up after they all died.
 
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Old February 9th, 2010   Mackaybear is offline   #52
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Yeah, I mean if you're not intimately familiar with the source material, then that leaves you open to make make tiny glitches which can grow into HUGE, glaring, continuity errors later.
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Which is why you have editors to correct those things.....sigh....
 
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Old February 9th, 2010   Matches is offline   #53
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It's almost always been work for hire...back then I'd think maybe creators did the work and were glad to get it. And never really thought much about rights.
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Not exactly. The publishers claim it was all work-for-hire, but in more than a few cases it wasn't. Superman, for example, most definitely was not a WFH creation - hence the present controversy.
 
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Old February 9th, 2010   Matches is offline   #54
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Yeah, I mean if you're not intimately familiar with the source material, then that leaves you open to make make tiny glitches which can grow into HUGE, glaring, continuity errors later.
ddf
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I've always been wary of this line of thinking, because it pretty much requires that only die-hard comic fans (who presumably keep up with all the continuity) write comics. Seems like a massive self-imposed limitation to the pool of talent.
 
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Old February 9th, 2010   Mackaybear is offline   #55
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Not exactly. The publishers claim it was all work-for-hire, but in more than a few cases it wasn't. Superman, for example, most definitely was not a WFH creation - hence the present controversy.
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What someone once said, and I really wish i could remember the reference was that there were no formal work for hire written contracts.....

And we all know oral agreements aren't worth the paper they're written on...heh
 
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Old February 9th, 2010   Mackaybear is offline   #56
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I've always been wary of this line of thinking, because it pretty much requires that only die-hard comic fans (who presumably keep up with all the continuity) write comics. Seems like a massive self-imposed limitation to the pool of talent.
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But that beggars the question of why the most popular selling books are the ones with characters who have very long histories. Even if you look back on the seventies as a short time ago.....

People want to know something about the characters, their backgrounds, histories, and characteristics.....

Though it's an old fashioned idea of late......Continuity shouldn't be the be all end all, but ret cons and massive revamps don't always bring in fans or new readers...or at least i don't think so...
 
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Old February 9th, 2010   Flash_Fact is offline   #57
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continuity is important, but it can become at times a major drag on storylines when authors are so self-absorbed with continuity that the stories suffer as a result.

even a cursory knowledge of a character's history should be enough for an artist to develop his or her own style and representation of said character. I would think that if the artist drastically altered the image or made even a slight alteration, that an editor or even the writer would catch it (moreso today than in the past).

Then again, you get inverted word balloons in the latest Batman & Robin issue.
 
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Old February 9th, 2010   Scott Mateo is offline   #58
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Which is why you have editors to correct those things.....sigh....
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Then it goes back to the old argument, "Are Editors Taking Too Much Control Away From The Creators?". A lot of people think that editor-driven titles were a bad thing in the 90's, and I tend to somewhat agree as well. I think we really need more Archie Goodwins and Tom Breevorts out there.
I've always been wary of this line of thinking, because it pretty much requires that only die-hard comic fans (who presumably keep up with all the continuity) write comics. Seems like a massive self-imposed limitation to the pool of talent.
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That's true, but look at Marvel - they have writers like Fred Van Lente, Brian Reed, Christos Gage, DnA, Ed Brubaker, Paul Cornell, Dan Slott, and a few other newer writers I'm sure I'm forgetting - they write great stories that do not feel "limited", and are die-hard comics fans so they actually know what they're writing about (or Tom Breevort and Bill Rosemann do a great editing job at filling in the blanks so it looks like they do).

I find that more appealing than Felicia Henderson's TEEN TITANS or that RED TORNADO mini that just came out, in which it's obvious that the readers are more familiar with the characters and scenarios than the actual writers are writing.
 
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Old February 9th, 2010   Mackaybear is offline   #59
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And G_D Forbid we go back to the days when an editor's note would get you up to speed on what was happening....heh...
 
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Old February 9th, 2010   Scott Mateo is offline   #60
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And G_D Forbid we go back to the days when an editor's note would get you up to speed on what was happening....heh...
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If it wasn't for those footnotes, my collection would be half the size it is now.

I used to think it was a lot of fun to buy a bunch of books, old and new, copy down all the issues mentioned in the footnotes, and then hunt them down the next week, and do the same thing, week after week.
 
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Old February 9th, 2010   Flash_Fact is offline   #61
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If it wasn't for those footnotes, my collection would be half the size it is now.

I used to think it was a lot of fun to buy a bunch of books, old and new, copy down all the issues mentioned in the footnotes, and then hunt them down the next week, and do the same thing, week after week.
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Me too. I actually liked during Waid's second run on Flash the inclusion of that introductory page that gave just enough info on each character and provided a short recap on what had transpired in previous issues.
 
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Old February 9th, 2010   Bagged & Boarded is offline   #62
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That's absolutely right. Everything is cyclical. And besides, they're only comic books. You're not giving up vital medication.
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I would never give up my meds...vital or otherwise.
 
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Old February 9th, 2010   Bagged & Boarded is offline   #63
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And I'm sure there's probably a back issue or two that features Wally that you don't have and might be interested in.

Just wait, in time things will shift and you'll probably see Wally again in a role you'll like.
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Hm...I have every issue of his series...and have read all the JLI/JLA books with him and I think all the Titans and other apps. I WILL keep my eye out though for other backissues.
 
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Old February 9th, 2010   Lee H is offline   #64
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This frightens me because long after the 90s push towards image & gimmicks over substance, we finally have a stable of writers who truly see comics as a viable art form, something that should receive critical attention beyond the comic fanbase circles. Now I'm not advocating we lock the artists in dark and dank cells with only an overhead light to draw by and forcefeed them scripts to complete with no input of their own, but perhaps some appreciation or understanding of the characters you are drawing, in some cases, you are inheriting as an artist would only improve the artist's style and reinforce the writer's stories.
ddf
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This really devalues the role the artist plays, as though it's only the person tapping on a keyboard who gives a comic artistic worth and the artist is merely a tool to be used.

And this really can't be directed to Ethan, he clearly does have a good understanding of the Flash characters and has thought things through.
 
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