The "We Like Gar Logan Back on the Titans" thread

[Old School]

so back to topic...

you would think that since gar is not really appearing anywhere that he could still have been written in the titans title until DC was really ready to make a move foward with the doom patrol team.

[Bhill68]

They might do that still. Have him as a full time member of the Doom Patrol and a reserve member of the Titans. Have him hang around the Tower to hang out with Vic and the others and try to patch up his realtionship with Raven. I think that having him appear regurarly in the Titans would generate buzz for a Doom Patrol book or at least mini and if you ever want to bring him back onto the Titans then it wouldn't be as out of left field.

[Lady Timedramon]

Okay, I'm no artist, so please bear with this rather newbish visual aid. ((CLICK HERE FOR A LARGER RESOLUTION VERSION)) I think most of it is self-explanatory. I find this layout to be more streamlined, though I may not have done it justice. A few things to add: - The colors choosen are just as example, and they vary in brightness mostly so the areas are easier to tell apart. - Rounded corners are more appealing than sharper corners. - I used solid colors, but preferrably you should find an artist (or if you're good with photoshop) to come up with borders around the purple area, the site banner, the news title bars, etc. - The link buttons should be small and the viewer should see the text easily. - Spreading out your links helps. Its common to expand the Gallery links into their individual sections itself so that people can click on them right away. - Keep fan submissions seperate (and below) the real stuff. - Links to other sites occupy the opposite side so that they are seen immediately and easier to click. - The quick link bar at the top provides quick access to the most common pages people will want to view. - All that other stuff that needs to be on your page (google ad bar, Titans web ring, etc.) Should go at the very bottom, under the news, and outside the purple border. So that's what I'd do with it. Its just a scrap idea I came up with while waiting for the family to arrive. More than anything else, I hope it helps you to come up with ideas. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Good luck!

Pliskin MacReady

Interesting design idea Pliskin. I was actually thinking of reducing the amount of stuff on the page and going with a template, but I do like a lot of the ideas on yours. If I can figure out how to do frames again (haven't done them in god knows how long), I might try to work something out on your principles.

Of course, I could always just have a web design contest

Anyhow, this is actually the "test version" of the template I was playing with modifying. Just the front page really. http://ladytimedramon.joeyteel.com/testsite/index.html - it would need a lot of work as is. I've been fiddling with it between Mom's bouts of insanity.

One of the reasons I wanted to go with frames is I'm forever having problems with linking and the buttons, especially when I go into sub directories. Actually, the page order on the buttons is sort of the way it is because some are "replaced out" - I removed an old page, then instead of redoing the links on every single page (I think I have about 40 pages... maybe more, I'd have to check link alarm), I just changed the button picture and the content. For example, the submissions section used to be the commissioned art page.

I was going to upload some new fanfic pages, then I was going to put them into a sub folder on my other server... and to do that, I need to change the links for all the pages.

And two things that compound problems: I've been working in an old Netscape composer for site layout, and my primary art program is an old version of Corel Photopaint (my friend the animator laughs at me for using it).

[DeTroyes]

so back to topic... you would think that since gar is not really appearing anywhere that he could still have been written in the titans title until DC was really ready to make a move foward with the doom patrol team.

Old School

Yeah, you would think that they would try to fit him in somewhere - which may be why he's shown up in 52 with the possibility of more appearances down the road. But for Teen Titans, I think they want to concentrate on the new team somewhat and place them on their own footing. Which means, I wouldn't expect either Gar or the DP to be showing up at all in the Titans East arc or even the one after.

[Lady Timedramon]

With about 2 hours peace and quiet, I came up with a mockup based on Pliskin's design:

http://ladytimedramon.joeyteel.com/testsite/It's_Not_Easy_Being_Green_test.html

I would need one more pic to balance the other side of the logo... and I would need to rework every page, but if I'm working from a base template and use URLs instead of what I did the last time, it might work easier.

And as to the topic - maybe they are setting Gar up for something. I suspect at this point he's in between "stress factors" - perhaps he has had a stable team for a bit and things haven't blown up around him, so he can devote some time to work on this issue. I don't think this is too close to Tim's return and his leaving for the DP - in that panel where he talks to Vic, he almost has that "I gotta get out of here or I'm going to have a nervous breakdown" posture and tone.

[Lady Timedramon]

Grrr... can't edit....

Due to an error, I had to change the file name: http://ladytimedramon.joeyteel.com/t...reen_test.html

[LadyDiane10001]

I would buy an Animal Man series with Garfield. But for some reason I doubt that's the way its going to go. Frankly, I'm not holding out much hope right now that he'll be in a regular home for a long time. Which sux, because I hate it when my favorite characters get mistreated like this. Between this with Beast Boy and what Marvel is doing to Gambit, I'm finding it hard to care about either of the big two right now.

[Lady Timedramon]

You know... they might be setting up something with Gar and Steel, aiming towards a sort of "contingency plan" for OYL, post 52, in case things fell through with DP.

Looking back at how Gar worked with Elongated Man in the quasi-DP, and with "the team formerly known as the Doom Patrol" (I wonder if we'll see a lawsuit with Thayer Jost to regain the name Doom Patrol ), I wouldn't mind seeing him working with a "fresh" group of people.

It might be Gar's turn to "graduate" - apparently the JLA doesn't seem interested in him (his name didn't come up, from what I can tell, of potential future members), the Doom Patrol is "family" and the Titans are his "school".

He might need to "graduate" beyond all his past connections. Perhaps after everything settles down, if Steel isn't with the JLA, he's faced with the ones who are left-over from Luthor's experiments. With Gar and another experienced hero or two, they start up a new team (unconnected to JLA and Titans).

[Pliskin MacReady]

You know... they might be setting up something with Gar and Steel, aiming towards a sort of "contingency plan" for OYL, post 52, in case things fell through with DP. Looking back at how Gar worked with Elongated Man in the quasi-DP, and with "the team formerly known as the Doom Patrol" (I wonder if we'll see a lawsuit with Thayer Jost to regain the name Doom Patrol ), I wouldn't mind seeing him working with a "fresh" group of people. It might be Gar's turn to "graduate" - apparently the JLA doesn't seem interested in him (his name didn't come up, from what I can tell, of potential future members), the Doom Patrol is "family" and the Titans are his "school". He might need to "graduate" beyond all his past connections. Perhaps after everything settles down, if Steel isn't with the JLA, he's faced with the ones who are left-over from Luthor's experiments. With Gar and another experienced hero or two, they start up a new team (unconnected to JLA and Titans).

Lady Timedramon

The only problem I can see with that is the writer. But that's a problem facing Gar all the time anyhow.

With some exceptions, I feel most writers would have Gar, on a team like that, default back into the team jokester/young novice position. Especially next to Elongated Man, with Sue's recent death, and Steel. And we've already discussed possible writers and all that stuff.

That's my fear should the Doom Patrol be given a series, that Gar slip back into that role (as he's once again the youngest on the team).

But otherwise its a good idea.

Though beyond the writer/artist, there's also the business end of the spectrum to consider. Would DC want a whole new team to exist at this point? They've already add a few, like Shadowpact, and revived some, like Infinity Inc. and Checkmate.

Then you also have to consider what role the team would play in the universe. Teen Titans and Infinity Inc. are the next generations (not sure if that'll hold for the new team), Checkmate as the watchers of the watchers, Doom Patrol as the outsiders, Shadowpact dealing with the mystical, and so forth. Conceiving of a team to fit a new role is always the hard part.

[Lady Timedramon]

The only problem I can see with that is the writer. But that's a problem facing Gar all the time anyhow. With some exceptions, I feel most writers would have Gar, on a team like that, default back into the team jokester/young novice position. Especially next to Elongated Man, with Sue's recent death, and Steel. And we've already discussed possible writers and all that stuff.

Pliskin MacReady

True. But hopefully it would get a good writer like Arcudi, who didn't feel a need to regress Gar to novice role.

And one of the reasons why I suggested Elongated Man is because of the way Ralph and Gar worked together on that team. As for Steel, well, we'll have to see how things progress in 52.

That's my fear should the Doom Patrol be given a series, that Gar slip back into that role (as he's once again the youngest on the team).

He already seemed to be in that role, last time we saw him >_<

But otherwise its a good idea. Though beyond the writer/artist, there's also the business end of the spectrum to consider. Would DC want a whole new team to exist at this point? They've already add a few, like Shadowpact, and revived some, like Infinity Inc. and Checkmate. Then you also have to consider what role the team would play in the universe. Teen Titans and Infinity Inc. are the next generations (not sure if that'll hold for the new team), Checkmate as the watchers of the watchers, Doom Patrol as the outsiders, Shadowpact dealing with the mystical, and so forth. Conceiving of a team to fit a new role is always the hard part.

One thing I was thinking is that, after all this Luthor stuff is done with, there's going to be a bunch of novices with powers who really don't know everything the hero business really entails. At one time, the Titans could have been the team to "catch" these "youngsters"... but the Titans keeps reverting to "legacy team" and "junior JLA" at times. I've been thinking of the idea of a team that is sort of a "school" - not a "hangout" (which is what the Titans became at one point). A team that takes the young "wannabees" and trains them to use their powers and to work together. I don't see him again in a "bridge the gap between old guard and new members" role, where he was "stuck" in Titans. I could see Gar as a "voice of experience" - a person with powers, a hero since a relatively young age, helping these "newcomers" to adjust to "life as a hero."

Out of curiousity... because I don't read much outside of Titans and LSH... is there a team that is like the "CSI" of superheros? I could see Gar working on that type of team... his animal senses tracking down different things, providing different insights... I could see Gar as the "Greg Saunders" of the team... (and mixing CSIs a bit.... I could see Elongated Man as a "Mac Taylor" type from CSI: NY).

[Pliskin MacReady]

Actually, worse than being the team jokester, I was always afraid someone might take Gar and bring him in a direction like Booster Gold (at his worst), and, becuase of Gar's desire to be a Hollywood actor, turn him into a shamless self-promoter obsessed with fame and money.

Fortunately, no one has ever done that (as far as I know). Yet...

I'm told Checkmate reads like Robert Laudlum or Clancy. That might be close to what you're suggesting. That's more of an espeionage feel, however, but still it closely relates.

I've never watched CSI, so my knowledge and opinions on the idea would be incomplete.

So if by CSI you mean a team that would investigate a crime, profile the offenders, decode the mystery, and so forth... I think his name is Batman.

More seriously, I don't think:

1 - A team like that would work without expanding on the concept more. In a world of superheroes, you need a little more. The problem is that the concept is probably more for a position on the team rather than the team itself.

2 - With a concept like that, candidates would more likely be Batman, Tim, Dick, and so forth. It would probably work better consisting of members who are actually trained in such fields, and whose character is leant more to that type of approach.

3 - Given the technology of the real world and not even the fictional DCU, Gar acting as bloodhound... just doesn't seem to work for a team focused on investigations. With characters like Mr. Terrific or even Cyborg... he just wouldn't fit.

The best way to conceive of a team for Gar to belong in would be to focus on and consider an aspect of Gar's character that he shares with other heroes and can be expanded into a team.

Example would be Shadowpact. It consists of characters participating in the DCU's mystical universe. They're either practitioners of, empowered by, or products the mystical powers at large in the DCU. Its a simple yet effective apporach to building a new and unique team.

The Doom Patrol - same thing, focused around the "freaks" and "strange" of the DCU. Its a focal point around which the team gravitates.

Buit since the likelyhood of DC adding a completely new team is probably nonexistent, its probably best to try and concieve of existing places Gar can belong in first.

Unfortauntely, right now it seems the Doom Patrol is it.

[Lady Timedramon]

The Doom Patrol - same thing, focused around the "freaks" and "strange" of the DCU. Its a focal point around which the team gravitates. Buit since the likelyhood of DC adding a completely new team is probably nonexistent, its probably best to try and concieve of existing places Gar can belong in first. Unfortauntely, right now it seems the Doom Patrol is it.

Pliskin MacReady

I have to admit... I'm one of those people who was against bringing back the Silver Age team. It was a good team for its time, but nowadays... well, Rita and Steve are "mild" when it comes to "freaks" and "strange". In comparison to Morrison's team, it's bland. I guess that's why I liked Arcudi's team. Fever didn't have control over her powers. Ava turns out to be a host for some sort of alien/demon/unknown-origin symbiote. Ted's personality makes up for a lot. Kid Slick's powers were novel (creating a frictionless field around himself and objects)... the personality needed work. And frankly, Gar fit right in with that group. He worked with them, advised them. Sure he joked around, but not enough to be pidgeonholed as "team jokester".

I wouldn't mind having Cliff, who's seen Gar grow up and change, and Larry... but simply being around Steve and Rita automatically regresses Gar to "child mode." And personally, I didn't feel that Karen and Mal were a needed addition - I would have rather seen some Arcudi members back.

BTW, did you see what I did, based on your "design"? I made a few more changes to it if you saw the earlier version (added another pic, changed the purple to something closer to Gar's McKone costume color, changed the logo color): http://ladytimedramon.joeyteel.com/t...reen_test.html

[Bhill68]

I think that Gar should be on the Titans, or have the Doom Patrol really be about freaks. The problem with that is that since Gar is famous he's not really persecuted about his green skin anymore, Red Tornado's daughter slept with a Beast Boy plushie. I think that since Gar has been a young hero and was persecuted the most I think he would be best on the Titans since he can really help young heros find their place in the world. He can shape them into finding who they are and what they really want to do with their life.

[Lady Timedramon]

I think that Gar should be on the Titans, or have the Doom Patrol really be about freaks. The problem with that is that since Gar is famous he's not really persecuted about his green skin anymore, Red Tornado's daughter slept with a Beast Boy plushie. I think that since Gar has been a young hero and was persecuted the most I think he would be best on the Titans since he can really help young heros find their place in the world. He can shape them into finding who they are and what they really want to do with their life.

Bhill68

I don't see that the Titans is so much about "young heroes finding their place in the world" - the original "concept" for Teen Titans was the "sidekick hangout". Nowadays it was supposed to be "a place for young heroes to hang". Doesn't quite seem like that any more... and honestly, I don't see a place for Gar with the Titans. He was supposed to "bridge the age gap" - which really only seemed to happen once. His old place is taken by Eddie. And lately, Vic seems to be "extra baggage" - if Vic is in that position, where really would Gar fit in?

I could see Gar helping young heroes, but it needs to be away from the Titans. And maybe away from the DP as well (unless the DP emulates the Xmen and starts an "academy" for younger people with problems adjusting to their powers, like Kid Slick and Fever).

Anyhow, you know what I really would like to see? I would like to see what the Chief's connection was to Gar's dad. Other than the one panel where the Chief talks about knowing Gar's dad back in the Drake DP days, it's never been mentioned. I've been working on stuff for the home page and started looking at Geoff's version of Gar's origin.

In Gar's original origins, he just contracted the Sakutia from the atmosphere - nothing about his getting bitten by a green monkey. His dad used his experiments to turn Gar into a green monkey to survive the Sakutia and when he tried to return Gar back to human, the green stayed.

I was looking at Geoff's origin pages again and one thing hit me. I watch a lot of documentaries. Monkeys, especially ones in jungles (not talking about the kinds that tend to live around villages) don't normally jump out of trees and attack people. They're more likely to hide or run away if threatened. If you look at the pages, it's almost something agitates the monkey to make it attack the first thing it saw.

Could the Chief have been behind that?

[Bhill68]

Well with the whole monkey attacking thing, the monkey did carry a disease and it maybe made the monkey all confusing and naturally more aggresive.

The Titans thing, to be fair there was a traitor involved with the whole missing year thing. When Gar hears about it he may be more willing to come back eventually, not right away. Especially if Vic asked him to come back and help. I think the main reason he quit was because that the whole year was just going through hell. I would like to see him there, mainly he's my favirote nonmainstream hero and Titans is my favirote DC book.

[Lady Timedramon]

Well with the whole monkey attacking thing, the monkey did carry a disease and it maybe made the monkey all confusing and naturally more aggresive. The Titans thing, to be fair there was a traitor involved with the whole missing year thing. When Gar hears about it he may be more willing to come back eventually, not right away. Especially if Vic asked him to come back and help. I think the main reason he quit was because that the whole year was just going through hell. I would like to see him there, mainly he's my favirote nonmainstream hero and Titans is my favirote DC book.

Bhill68

Still... you haven't said what part he'd fill on the team. I don't see any place for him, especially with Eddie there. In fact, with the current cast, I only see Gar just "hanging around" and getting shoved back to the background.

And frankly, if Gar would be going back to the Titans solely to be "Raven's love interest," I'd sooner see Gar stay in limbo