The "We Like Gar Logan Back on the Titans" thread

[Saturn Girl]

If you don't mind my asking, how much were they?

TalonTheater

Hello? It's rude to ask people to divulge their finances. You wouldn't ask your friend how much he paid for his wedding ring, would you? Enjoy the lovely pencils and and leave it at that.

[TalonTheater]

Hence the "if you don't mind my asking" bit. I have no idea what the standard price of original pencilled pages are.

Plus, I don't really think it's a personal intrusion. It doesn't really have anything to do with him, just the object.

[Lady Timedramon]

Prices depend on the artist, plus which characters are on the page and how much work is on the page. It also depends on if you're buying the art from the inker or the artist - I've found that pages tend to cost a little less from the inker.

Now if only Justiniano would finally put some of his pages from the Beast Boy mini. All of the pages I got were through Chris Ivy (the inker). Sadly, apparently Justiniano got that page of Gar in front of the moon and with the rose from BB #1.... ;_;

[Bhill68]

Personally I haven't been one of those people who collect comics to sell them later, it just never interseted me. I always just bought them because I enjoyed the stories and the mythology of it all. Im not trying to criticize Im just stating my opinion. Of course if I ever found the first apperance of Superman or Batman in mint conidition, like Action Comics 1 I would sell that to the highest bidder immedately, and then use that to help pay for college. Of course the chances of that are pretty slim.

I do hope that even if BB doesn't come back to the Titans that they use him for guest apperances. (Sorry for saying this LT, Im not trying to convert you) I think that they could do with BB what they do with Kitty in Ulitmate Spider-Man. For those of you that don't know a brief summary of what happned, also the Ultimate universe is not in the mainstream Marvel Universe, that's important to know. Peter broke up with MJ because he felt like that since she was with him she would be a target for all of his enemies. He thought that since she couldn't really defend herself that it would be his fault if she died, so he broke up to protect her. Well, later on Kitty Pryde, Shadowcat, broke up with Bobby I think it was and she had a little crush on Peter since she first met him and went to pursue a relationship with him. Since she was a superhero as well and he felt some attraction, though not as strong as MJ, he decided to pusue a relationship since it wouldn't be his fault if she got hurt.

What I am saying here is that in the case of Ultimate Spider-Man even though they are in two separate books we see a lot of Peter and Kitty interaction, they had a whole arc dedicated to it. I think that even if Geoff had to take Beast Boy off of the team for mangerial reasons he can still keep him as a guest to hang around the tower. He has at least two good reasons, best friend Vic and girlfriend, if they ever make up. Im just saying that there has been precedence.

[Pliskin MacReady]

Hey, what about me? I'm the hopeless schmuck that shelled out the cash for the pencils to these two pages (Lady T, you probably want to shield your eyes at this point): http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y21...g?t=1163803112 http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y21...g?t=1163803042 ... and I am most definetely NOT a girl. <----- Has more money than sense

DeTroyes

Yes, I also like how he didn't mention how it was on sale to some of his friends until after he had already won them. He'll probably get the first page from the first OYL issue as well.

[Pliskin MacReady]

What I am saying here is that in the case of Ultimate Spider-Man even though they are in two separate books we see a lot of Peter and Kitty interaction, they had a whole arc dedicated to it. I think that even if Geoff had to take Beast Boy off of the team for mangerial reasons he can still keep him as a guest to hang around the tower. He has at least two good reasons, best friend Vic and girlfriend, if they ever make up. Im just saying that there has been precedence.

Bhill68

I have a feeling that the only reason there's been no definitive break-up between them is because their relationship will be used as a plot device to have Gar show up at the tower casually from time to time. Its a shame, I've wanted to see more depth to it since I first noticed it was being foreshadowed, even accepted the lack of character motivation in part because of the IC build-up and constant crossovers, but that was when I thought we'd get more once the whole company-wide story came to a close. But if its a plot device for now, so be it, whatever has Gar coming back every so often.

But hosnetly, it shouldn't even be that way. Though if I were Vic right now, I'd be a little pissed at Gar. The Doom Patrol issue, which was more of a Brain/Mallah issue, basically ends with Gar telling his best friend, whose been in coma for a year, that he's staying with his parents and company because they could use a good laugh. Nevermind your best friend lost a year of his life and things have become a mess since then (and he was the one who put you in charge in the first place).

I won't come out and say it was poor writing since it may have been editorial, but even if Gar wasn't coming back to a permanent slot on the Titans, he should have at least hung around and helped Vic until the Titans achieved some level of stability (the end this or of the next arc). Then he could've bowed out and went into limbo.

But as of right not, its like he's become a recluse. Besides not helping his best friend adjust (something that seems a little more important than babysitting the Doom Patrol, especially since Steve appears to have gotten his bearings back at the end of the issue), we've also no commentary on his estranged or former girlfriend, Raven. Its also been too vague to even tell if they've broken up, or if they're "together" but have been out of contact over whatever it was that made Raven leave in the first place (which may or may not be whatever it is that is supposed to happen in this upcoming mini).

Really, the whole thing has been handled poorly. Even without any romantic interest, I think Gar should've stuck with Vic right now until some semblance of stability had returned. Especially if he considers alot of what happened to be his fault; more so if he was indeed being intetionally sabotaged by an outside force (perhaps Slade); I would like their to be some sort of justice for him in being able to confront who/what it was that really lead him to get screwed.

[Bhill68]

I do agree with you for the most part Pliskin, I do think it was poorly handled for the most part, but to be fair yes his best friend did lose a year of his life, but his mother lost like 5 or 6 and she was the one that saved him from Galtry. I do understand why they have Gar on the Doom Patrol, even in the story reasons, but I disagree completly with the decision. In all honesty it kinda makes him look a little bit like a mama's boy, and not in the sweet "I love my mama a lot way." More like "Mama I can't deal with this situation right now, please help me escape it." I know that's not what they were going for, but it does kinda come across that way.

[Pliskin MacReady]

Part of me thinks Johns gave us so little Gar in that issue purposefully to keep us unsatisfied and pressuring DC... but that may be wishful thinking. It was probably editorial in nature.

Though, honestly, I can see why Gar would want to stay around and help the DP, but I cannot see why, at least for a short time, he would not stay with Vic and help him until Vic readjusted and things settled down a little. He really should be tagging along with the Titans until the roster is finalized and stable (again, agter this or the next arc).

Or at the very least, we should see Vic and Gar communicating in some other way.

Part of it is also how Vic is being underused. This whole post-OYL story should really have him at the center of it; instead we've focused mostly on Tim/Cassie and Eddie/Rose. While I'm enjoying Eddie and Rose, and while I understand the plots revolve around what happened to these characters in the lost year, it should really be told more from Vic's perspective and with more on how Vic is handling everything. I want to see what's going on in Vic's head.

But that's just my two cents.

[TalonTheater]

It shouldn't be focused on Vic, imo; he's one of the only Titans we know well of the OYL Titans. It should focus more on Eddie, Rose, Martian, etc.

Edit: Well, and Raven.

[Pliskin MacReady]

Not focused on him, but through him. His perspective. You know, how like a narrator isn't necessarily the protagonist. The story of the other Titans could be related through him. In team books, of course, there's never any specific narrotr of the action, but within story arcs there's usually one character who relates the story or through whose eyes we see most of the action through. That should be Vic right now.

Yeah we know him well, but he's also been nothing but a cardboard cutout in the series up to this point. Even before the jump, he had no decernable sotryline and no focus and no direction. We don't know really know what's going through his head as well as we do the others.

I guess what I mean is that he needs more page time and interaction with the other members than a specific focus within the arc.

They'll be plenty to learn about the others, but why Vic should be given a direction at least; for a team leader, he's not sure involved in very much of his teams' lives. That's even more bothersome when he's supposed to be the oldest, and is insuated as filling the role of gaurdian/mentor on the team. He could be shown acting the role much more than he does (which is nearly not at all, in my opinion). Especially with Raven, given the history, though its too soon to say he hasn't.

So in short, I think we should be getting the story of the new Titans and the missing year through Vic at the moment, and then once a direction is established for him, we can get the indivicdual stories through the individual characters.

[Lady Timedramon]

I remember Gar wearing a black and silvery costume on the cover of the final issue of Wolfman's Titans, but I don't think he ever wore it in an issue. All I remember is that he woke up sane again after all that Trigon seeds business and that was pretty much it for the character for a long time.

Saturn Girl

You know, I've just been going over the Arcudi Patrol issues. I don't know if it was just inconsistant coloring or what, but a lot of the time, Gar's costume looks black and white.

Scans to come...

[Lady Timedramon]

As promised... and thank God for torrents (I'd never get my scanner cleared off, let alone have the patience to scan all this - just reducing image sizes to save bandwidth was bad enough).

Anyhow:

Here is the team briefly known as the Doom Patrol, who will never be remembered as such:
http://ladytimedramon.joeyteel.com/i..._v3_004-05.jpg

You know... Elongated Man, Metamorpho, Gar, and the female Dr. Light would have made an interesting long-term team. Oh, the "slick" guy is Thayer Jost, who's financing everything.

http://ladytimedramon.joeyteel.com/i..._v3_004-19.jpg

Gar and Cliff meet up, but Cliff looks a bit confused...

http://ladytimedramon.joeyteel.com/i..._v3_005-05.jpg

Gar on the attack, vs Nao Yut's "spirit guardians"

http://ladytimedramon.joeyteel.com/i..._v3_006-03.jpg

At this point, Nao Yut and his crew are defeated (for now). However, Cliff had suddenly disappeared. Looks like Rex still has an "in" from the JLA...

Oh, for those who didn't read this series, the guy with the cigarrette is Ted Bruder, aka "Fast Forward" aka "Negative Man" (to be explained in a later scan). The long haired guy at the computer is Vic, aka "Kid Slick".

http://ladytimedramon.joeyteel.com/i..._v3_006-04.jpg

Thayer Jost backed out on financing the teams. Basically, Ralph and Dr. Light are out... but of course, Gar doesn't let down a friend. The blonde is Fever, aka Shyleen Lao.

http://ladytimedramon.joeyteel.com/i..._v3_006-06.jpg

I just posted this one to show how annoying Kid Slick is... and how dangerous it is to try to hug Fever.

http://ladytimedramon.joeyteel.com/i..._v3_006-12.jpg

Gar does some researching in the files Metamorpho sent.

http://ladytimedramon.joeyteel.com/i..._v3_006-15.jpg

Gar discovers how dysfunctional this Doom Patrol is.... and that Shyleen's costume is NOT flameproof....

http://ladytimedramon.joeyteel.com/i..._v3_006-17.jpg
http://ladytimedramon.joeyteel.com/i..._v3_006-18.jpg
http://ladytimedramon.joeyteel.com/i..._v3_006-19.jpg
http://ladytimedramon.joeyteel.com/i..._v3_006-20.jpg

Gar tries to get the team together... and we find out why Ted is called "Negative Man"... oh yes, the tattooed woman is Ava, aka Freak.

More to come later...

[Saturn Girl]

Hey, thanks so much for sharing all those scans! I haven't been able to find any Arcudi back issues at my LCS. I had no idea until fairly recently that Elongated Man, Dr. Light and Metamorpho had anything at all to do with the DP. It sure would be nice to see some acknowledgement of that history from any of those characters next time they see Gar or the DP.

[Lady Timedramon]

Hey, thanks so much for sharing all those scans! I haven't been able to find any Arcudi back issues at my LCS. I had no idea until fairly recently that Elongated Man, Dr. Light and Metamorpho had anything at all to do with the DP. It sure would be nice to see some acknowledgement of that history from any of those characters next time they see Gar or the DP.

Saturn Girl

No prob. I'll have some more scans up tomorrow, including some of the Seth Fisher drawings. Technically, it's Kid Slick who's been transported back in time into Gar's body, but his transformations are a riot.

You know, I could see Elongated Man, female Dr. Light, Metamorpho, and Gar working pretty well as a team, if it had lasted.

Going back to another point though - I think Arcudi handled Gar very well. Once in a while, there is a good head-shot of Gar by Huat... but overall his drawing of Gar really stinks.

[Bhill68]

Oh LT, just out of curiousity. Has any villan really used the death of Gar's real parents, Mark and Marie, against him and his guilt for it. I remeber there being a brief mention of it in Terror of Trigon but they attacked more of him viewing himself as a failure. If not then I think that would be a great, I don't know not story but conistent theme I guess is the right word. Look how much Batman's parents' death affected him, and he had a whole lot of money and Alfred. I just think it's a shame if nobody ever used that. I do remember hearing that they mentioned it some in the Doom Patrol, but if hasn't been used since than that would be a shame.

[Lady Timedramon]

Oh LT, just out of curiousity. Has any villan really used the death of Gar's real parents, Mark and Marie, against him and his guilt for it. I remeber there being a brief mention of it in Terror of Trigon but they attacked more of him viewing himself as a failure. If not then I think that would be a great, I don't know not story but conistent theme I guess is the right word. Look how much Batman's parents' death affected him, and he had a whole lot of money and Alfred. I just think it's a shame if nobody ever used that. I do remember hearing that they mentioned it some in the Doom Patrol, but if hasn't been used since than that would be a shame.

Bhill68

Not that I really remember, but I would have to look at my Tales of the New Teen Titans Changeling issue to see if Galtry used it - though I doubt it.

There's a few big differences between the deaths of Gar's biological parents and the deaths of Batman's and Nightwing's parents.

1. Gar was only about 4 or 5 when it happened. IIRC, Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson were at least 10 (maybe older - depending on which version you read).

2. Gar's parents weren't murdered like the Waynes or the Graysons - they drowned in an accident when their canoe went over a waterfall on a flooded river.

3. Gar felt guilty (at least when it happened) that he couldn't rescue them, even with his powers, but a 5 year old, his shapeshifting was limited. Bruce Wayne, I don't think felt guilty because he couldn't do anything to save his parents - rather, he wanted to prevent similar situations from happening.

At this point, at age 19, you do have to wonder how much Gar actually remembers of life in the research facility with his parents - he does have some memories (you can tell when he's staring at himself in the mirror in TT 14 and when he encounters Dr. Register), but the memories are most likely hazy - like remembering visiting your grandparents, who died when you were little.

Luckily, I remembered that I had the scans for Gar's original DP origins posted at my message board. You can read the differences for yourself (though ignore Arnold Drake's inconsistancy - I don't think Drake was used to writing 5 year olds). Here are the links:


Doom Patrol 112 p. 22
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Doom Patrol 113 p. 17
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Doom Patrol 114 p. 25
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Doom Patrol 115 p. 17
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