The Comic Bloc Forums

Go Back   The Comic Bloc Forums > General Talk > DC Comics

DC Comics Metropolis, Gotham, Coast City, Opal City, Smallville and other points East.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 5th, 2006   Anthem is offline   #81
Anthem's Avatar
Anthem
Advanced JSAfan

 
joined: Mar 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,698

Default

While I think Marc Andreyko has essentially taken care of any speculation about Geoff's intention towards the Obsidian character, I would like to point out that Geoff said nothing except that his opinions were his own and that Obsidian was in the JSA because he was a legacy character. I would be a lot shirtier in this comment if it weren't for Marc stepping in to say that Geoff was definitely taking Obsidian in a direction Marc agrees with.
 
Steve Perrin Crusty Old Comics Fan at Large KSCA, SMOG
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2006   Tick Tock Findley is offline   #82
Tick Tock Findley's Avatar
Tick Tock Findley
Four Color Cowboy

 
joined: Jan 2003
Location: California
Posts: 602

Default

After reading the last five pages, I went back and dug out some old interviews, press releases, etc. with Alex Ross. Given his reactions and attitude to ANYTHING related to Kyle Rayner, I really believe he was referring to the GL/Sentinel mini-series. Reread that and see if you don't think that every character except Kyle was grossly mishandled. Molested was definitely a poor choice of words, but that (IMHO) is all it was.

One more point: In every interivew, press release, etc. I could find, I didn't find any comment about any character's sexuality.

If anyone has something else, please post it. I'm not trying to paper over anyone's feelings, but how about folks at least consider the idea that this was just a dumb@ss thing to say. It wouldn't be the first time.

Kevin
 
"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2006   sylpemberton is offline   #83
sylpemberton's Avatar
sylpemberton
A Ginger Horseman

 
joined: Jun 2005
Location: Wish I could say New York but no I'm stuck twelve hours North East by car...
Posts: 3,937

Default

First of all - I don't necessarily see this as a big homophobic comment - it could easily be, but it could just as easily be a comment about how Todd is being handled in general - seeing a happy side of him that we have never seen before - so it could be the case that this is what Alex is taking issue with - either way "molesting" seems an awful strong word either way. Just wanted to get that out of the way before I address one of Jim's comment.

Take me for example. I dislike the change in Todd yet am not homophobic. Its the 'change-for-change's sake' that bugs me, not the variety or nature of the change. I would have also been bugged if they had said that Todd was suddenly devout Christian or had always like killing small animals for fun. Those would be radical changes and not things that Roy Thomas has designed the character to be.
ddf
Jim Beard View Post
Jim - why do you see Todd's homosexuality as change for changes sake? I ask because in my eyes it is a very fitting and very sensible character progression for Obsidian as he's been written all along, even by Mr. Thomas. Roy wrote Obsidian as a character who had a bit of an edge, a bit of unhappiness, and who had little success with the ladies. Even when we did see inside his head it was his thoughts about Raven, and his thoughts about the darkness inside of her more so then "she's got nice....". Roy also wrote him as strongly religious, which would possibly be the reason why Obsidian would not accept certain things about himself.

The reason I ask? Because in my early 20s I pulled a Todd Rice. I dated a few women. I tried to make a few things work. I was generally interested. But I either went after relationships I knew would never go anywhere, or relationships where things were safe - nice little catholic girl who firmly believed in no sex before marriage. And honestly I was pretty miserable, I was mopey, I was a bit on the angry side.

It lead to some pretty self-destructive behavior along the way. We have all seen that Obsidian has been there.

And then I learned to live with it. I accepted myself. I started the process of letting others know that I was gay. I learned to be myself. I started out a couple of relationships. And for the first time in years I was happy. I was no longer the serious sour one in the room all the time. I was just me and I was having a blast.

Even removing Gerard Jones oh so painful JLI reveal from the equation, the other writers who have handled Obsidian over the years have lead Obsidian down a path which I have seen reflected in my own life somewhat. And Marc's handling of Obsidian has made me go "oh wow, it was there all along" not "this is change just so we have another gay guy". If there is one comic character I relate to more than any other at the moment it probably is Todd Rice. And it's his entire history as presented, and it all makes sense to me as it all fits together.

I seem to remember Roy considering adding a gay character to Infinity Inc in something I read online at one point or another. Who's to say he didn't? Has Roy come out and said Obsidian is straight and I never intended him to be gay? I really would like to hear his thoughts on this if he has made any public. You see Todd Rice as being designed as a straight character. I see the foundations laid from early on that he might have been far more ambiguous...and experiences from my own life parallel Todd's growth from a "straight character" to one who is "gay" which makes me easy to read even what Roy did with the character as leaving the possibility open.
 
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2006   PrincessCrujectra is offline   #84
PrincessCrujectra's Avatar
PrincessCrujectra
Member

 
joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 148

Default

Even if that was not Roy's original intention when creating the character, I don't feel that a creator's original intent is always written in stone if they don't touch the character for like 20 years.

Interpretation of a character's makeup can lead any creator down a plot path that for some might seem out of the blue or don't for shock value. For instance, I thought Todd's becoming a villain was out of character, but obviously other people found that to make total sense.

It's all in how you look at things

It's just like Alex Ross's comment. I can see where some people might find it homophobic, but on the other hand I can see how some might interpret it to just be a rude comment about another creator. To be honest, I didn't think too much about it when I first read it, but I was also kinda reading the article quickly, so I might just not have absorbed it at first. I didn't think about it until it became a big hoohah hear, and then I went back to re-read it
 
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2006   Jim Beard is offline   #85
Jim Beard's Avatar
Jim Beard
Batman '66 Lives!

 
joined: Sep 2002
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 5,643

Default

Syl, all I can say is that I stand by my statement and called it like I see it. In my view, Roy did not intend for Todd to be gay. I have nothing in front of me to back that up but its simply how I feel. Apologies if my statement rankled anyone.

Jim
 
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2006   Jim Beard is offline   #86
Jim Beard's Avatar
Jim Beard
Batman '66 Lives!

 
joined: Sep 2002
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 5,643

Default

Joey, thank YOU for YOUR reply, While I too respuctfully disagree, I DO respect your opinion, brutha JSA fan.

Jim
 
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2006   Bruiser is offline   #87
Bruiser's Avatar
Bruiser
Browncoat

 
joined: Jun 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,336

Default

Joey, with all respect, I think you may be putting the cart before the horse. Ross's comments are snarky but aren't necessarily homophobic. I think too often there's a rush to claim something like that in cases like these and you may be doing the speaker a disservice until he's given an opportunity to clarify the matter.

When I read it, I see that AR doesn't like the previous direction of the character, not necessarily the particulars of that direction. What if he's saying he doesn't think Todd should be depowered and a 'regular' non-costumed guy? It could be that he doesn't care for a dramatic change in Todd personality, one that wasn't there at the creation of the character, the type of change that many fans are against...which doesn't make every single one of them homophobic.

Take me for example. I dislike the change in Todd yet am not homophobic. Its the 'change-for-change's sake' that bugs me, not the variety or nature of the change. I would have also been bugged if they had said that Todd was suddenly devout Christian or had always like killing small animals for fun. Those would be radical changes and not things that Roy Thomas has designed the character to be.

I think you do a great disservice to everyone involved, especially gays, when you label someone homophobic without a clear statement from the person of such.

My opinion.

Jim
ddf
Jim Beard View Post
Glad to hear Marc and Geoff have weighed in on this. Kudos to Jim for his post I've quoted here because he was able to get across alot of what I was trying to say yesterday about this matter in another thread concerning this alot better. Sad part about this is I definitely have to say I've really lost some respect for Alex Ross but on the bright side my respect for Marc and Geoff has definitely grown and I dont say this lightly.
 
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2006   sylpemberton is offline   #88
sylpemberton's Avatar
sylpemberton
A Ginger Horseman

 
joined: Jun 2005
Location: Wish I could say New York but no I'm stuck twelve hours North East by car...
Posts: 3,937

Default

Syl, all I can say is that I stand by my statement and called it like I see it. In my view, Roy did not intend for Todd to be gay. I have nothing in front of me to back that up but its simply how I feel. Apologies if my statement rankled anyone.

Jim
ddf
Jim Beard View Post
Ah. Not rankled here. Hope you didn't take it that way...

But I will stand by my view. Even if Roy didn't intend Todd to be gay, he left enough seeds there when he stopped writing the character that it makes sense to me regardless.

Regardless, I'm loving Marc's take on Obsidian. I'm loving him being happy, and well adjusted for a change. I'm hoping he shows up in the second season of Manhunter (starting tomorrow! WHOO!)

AJ
 
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2006   Dan Loayza is offline   #89
Dan Loayza's Avatar
Dan Loayza
Whiteside Pawn

 
joined: Nov 2004
Location: Massachusetts, USA.
Posts: 4,905

Default

Alex Ross growing up would necessitate him accepting that Superfriends was cancelled over two decades ago and that characters can and have been changed by creators other than him. As his body of work and public statements demonstrate, that's never going to happen.
ddf
Impulse View Post
You're my hero.
 
#HEEL
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2006   Infernorhythm is offline   #90
Infernorhythm's Avatar
Infernorhythm
Aspiring Writer

 
joined: Jun 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,303

Default

Cool. I purposely avoided the Starman comic. This is the one comic I don't want spoilers for.

I was looking through the art, and man, Ross rules. I'm not usually a big fanatic of his, but this looks so good. Although I have to ask, why is Cyclone near nude aside from that green dress? Isn't she a minor or something?
 
Superman Returns was a great film. DO NOT REBOOT!
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2006   holo2 is offline   #91
holo2's Avatar
holo2
Advanced Geoffan

 
joined: Jan 2004
Location: Northern New Jersey
Posts: 2,039

Default

[quote=TJLamb0518;856605]To be honest, I thought the comments were inapprpriate but not homophobic until I started reading through this thread. I just thought he was referring to the ways the character had been portrayed in the past (he's a hero now he's a psycho, now he's a hero again, now he's trying to take over the world, now he's powerless, now he's a powered hero again) and never really thought about the gay angle (I'm not dismissing this as a possibility of what what he meant; I just never thought about it). To me, his comments seemed more like the current DC policy of making the current creators look spiffy by pooping all over the work of anyone who came before them, ESPECIALLY if they were involved in the works of the Post-CoIE DCU. QUOTE]

This is EXACTLY how I took his comments as well. At least I am not the only one.
 
"You have obstructed us for now, but your feeble bid to save humanity will fail! Hail Xenu!!!"
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2006   Impulse is offline   #92
Impulse's Avatar
Impulse
Don't call me Kid Flash!

 
joined: Apr 2004
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 2,858

Default

You're my hero.
ddf
Dan Loayza View Post
I live to serve.
 
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2006   Jim Beard is offline   #93
Jim Beard's Avatar
Jim Beard
Batman '66 Lives!

 
joined: Sep 2002
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 5,643

Default

And I should have said a while back that, yes, Ross can be pretty darn rude sometimes in his interviews. He does have the talent, IMO, to back up his chutzpah, but discretion is the better part of valor, also IMO.

Jim
 
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2006   RJ Squires is offline   #94
RJ Squires's Avatar
RJ Squires
persona non grata

 
joined: Aug 2006
Location: Boiling Springs, SC
Posts: 5,527

Default

And I should have said a while back that, yes, Ross can be pretty darn rude sometimes in his interviews. He does have the talent, IMO, to back up his chutzpah, but discretion is the better part of valor, also IMO.

Jim
ddf
Jim Beard View Post
There is a fine line between Arrogance and Chutzpah...
 
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2006   imarriedsatanII is offline   #95
imarriedsatanII's Avatar
imarriedsatanII
Horseman of the Calypso

 
joined: Nov 2002
Location: Classified
Posts: 8,452

Default

Now let us pause and ask: "WWGD?"

 
"Something profound" - Me
Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2006   BrianT is offline   #96
BrianT's Avatar
BrianT
@PAComicExaminer

 
joined: Jan 2004
Location: Philly
Posts: 8,017

Default

And I should have said a while back that, yes, Ross can be pretty darn rude sometimes in his interviews. He does have the talent, IMO, to back up his chutzpah, but discretion is the better part of valor, also IMO.

Jim
ddf
Jim Beard View Post
IMO, no amount of talent gives you the right to be a jag off.
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2000-2008 Comic Bloc All characters and titles are © by their respective owners.